Getting the best from non actors

[HCoremark]

I asked for it so I guess I should kick off.

I am currently scripting a short (10 minutes or so). It will be the first substantial thing I direct.

I am going to cast friends/family(see end of post).

Anyone have any tips/stories to offer to get a better performance.
Or even horror stories and mistakes you've learnt by that we may be able to avoid?

I fully expect this to be the shoot where I realise all of my short comings (that's almost the point) but I'm very confident in my writing so would like to do the final script some justice

I am using friends/family and myself because they are free and whilst I have on or two places to find an actor willing to help out I don't want to squander that contact on my first test run.

[24Peter]

I've worked with both actors and non-actors on my shorts. The most important thing is to find people who really want to do it -whether they're actors or not. People doing it to "help you out" or because it might look good on their reel are not the ones to use.

In terms of actors v non-actors, of course it is better to use people with experience. But the last two shorts I did had first time actors. I chose them b/c 1) they had the requisite passion for the project I mentioned above and 2) I knew they were right for the part personality-wise. Overall I was pleased with the performances I got out of them. But there is nothing like working with an experienced, smart actor. They can really take a project to the next level.

As far as using up your acting contacts, my experience is there are always more people out who can or want to act (granted I do live in Los Angeles - but if you have a local college with a theater program you'll have a reasonable supply of actors for all your productions.)

Family/friends, if they're right for the part (as the writer/director it's your job to know if they are or not) and they're genuinely excited about it, then go for it - esp. on your first project.

[Erik Bien]

Well said, Peter.

Casting is one of those factors that can make or break a film, but it's probably more important that someone is "right" for their role than that they have a lot of experience.

In fact, an actor with too much experience can be even worse than a first-timer, if that experience is on stage and not in front of camera -- I tend to think of the camera as the ultimate lie detector, and the same performance which might seem nuanced and subtle on stage can feel over-rehearsed or "hammy" from the more intimate perspective of the lens.

Personally, I think everyone who wants to direct needs to have at least a few acting classes under their belt: finding the right vocabulary to communicate your ideas to the cast or knowing what a performer needs to do their best work isn't something that "comes naturally."

[HCoremark]

Interesting idea about acting classes. It makes sense to know what you are asking for before you ask it.

[24Peter]

Interesting idea about acting classes. It makes sense to know what you are asking for before you ask it.

I've taken two. To find out what the process of acting is about. But it's pretty brutal being in front of an audience/camera trying to be someone I'm not. That's why I'm a director.

[Cartoonmaker]

Hope I'm not intruding on someone else's turf here. I've done mostly animated (2-D & 3-D) short films, videos and commercials. I've been the videographer for one live short, though.

But I can offer advice that always helps in film making, whatever medium you use.

Consider making a story reel or animatic. A video version of storyboards shown to all the players will help everyone be on the same page. You don't need to be a great artist, just do stick figures playing out the camera shots. Add a little music and some scratch audio (do it yourself).

Everyone who watches it will instantly understand the flavor of the film, get any visual jokes timed right, and you the editor will have a pre-edited film you can experiment with to work on the timing while filming.

In the animation world, story reels are an absolute necessity. But even in live action, story reels can take a film to the next level before it's even time to shoot.

[Numbox]

Most importantly, tell them NOT to act.

Also, tell them to ease up on the eye bulging (can't find the right word for it, my english is obviously not as good as i thought ) cause most of the pepole who have no formal acting training always think that acting means bulging your eyes out whenever you're supposed to act something

[HCoremark]

Animatics and no eye bulging. Got it.

I'm actually writing a new script at teh moment which will only need three characters. My GF will play the lead and me and my writing partner will take the other two smaller roles. Should be good practice to get a feel for being in front of the camera.

Even though I'll be setting up the shot and calling action I'm still wierdly apprehensive about it.

[Numbox]

Also, what i mentioned about telling them not to act, what i meant was this - non professional actors usually have an idea how something should be acted out, whether from what they saw in movies or theatre, but since they're not trained for it, it usually looks terrible, so i think it's best you sit down with them and try to get them to remember a situtation from their lives, where they experienced the similar emotion that they're supoposed to play out, and just to act the way they acted in that situation. That way you'll get a more natural performance.


Bear in mind that this are just some of my observations from spending some time in a non professional theatre, i could be totally wrong

[HCoremark]

What about rehersals? ANyone tried this with non professionals? I would guess that without acting experience/training rehersals would not be as useful as it is with a real actor. I have absolutely no idea so maybe the opposite is true.

[24Peter]

I'm very big on rehearsals -whether with actors or non-actors. Must be a control thing...

[Fletch78]

(...) so i think it's best you sit down with them and try to get them to remember a situtation from their lives, where they experienced the similar emotion that they're supoposed to play out, and just to act the way they acted in that situation. That way you'll get a more natural performance.

Couldn't say it better. I always told my non-actors (did that twice, but never again, but that's a different story...) to imagine the situation I'm putting them in as the director and do what they would do in this situation. In my last feature film I made the biggest mistake casting myself as the lead. I had some bad guys (they looked reeeeally bad, but couldn't act at all...) who were supposed to chase and try to kill me. I never got the performance I wanted, so in the end I started to shout at them and being not so nice ("What was that supposed to be? COME ON, you have to try harder!" and so on...) and make them angry at me...and voilà...there they were "acting" almost like pros!

I have one more advice with non-actors, especially if they're friends and family: never stop mentioning how serious you are about your movie! Elaborate a nice script and make a shooting schedule, according to the availability of your actors. In my case, I ended up wasting weeks and months, just because my "actors" assured my they'd be willing to participate, but then refused to show up in time or said they had better things to do that day I wanted to shoot. So make it crystal clear to them that making a movie is WORK. Sure, you can have fun on the set, but you can't make a movie just by goofing around. Finally, explain them that there will be some breaks, that you need time to set up your camera/lights/microphones. "Normal" guys usually don't understand and think that when you show up with a non-professional looking cam it's not worth taking the time to set up a shot properly.

Man, I could tell you stories about my movie...many many bad experiences (but also many nice memories), but after all even those taught me a big lesson how and how not to shoot a feature film...

[thedge771]

I agree that a director should take acting classes to know the aspect of being in front of the camera as well, it's a good tool to know what your actors are going through.

As far as using family and friends, I would suggest letting them know how serious you are about the project (hopefully pretty serious) because for direction of people you know it's better for them to get into the mind set that you're really directing towards a goal.

If you're using first time actors, that you may or may not know, or experienced actors it's been debated whether it is good to meet with an actor before their performance in front of the camera on an informal level. I know I enjoy talking to actors before I film them, let them know the feel of the porject before I even let them read any lines. Meeting over coffee or anything just to talk so there is a professional air but also the sense that an actor that is working for you...is working FOR YOU.

Many professional directors let their reputations preceed them when dealing with first time or new actors to their techniques, it really is just a decision on your part whether or not you want the actors to have a feel for you and work with you, or have them maybe be nervous but really be on a professional level with you once you're filming.

[w.pasman]

Interesting tips, thanks

"Normal" guys usually don't understand and think that when you show up with a non-professional looking cam it's not worth taking the time to set up a shot properly.

OK so you need to put your HV20 inside an old studio cam :-D

[nzo]

No eye-bulging...love it!

[colonelpanic]

I've only been involved in music and dance videos so far but for the few acting shots we had to do there's one thing I've noticed when casting the 'right' characters.
Don't get fooled by overly confident or, inversely, shy characters behind the scenes. The quieter or 'shy' ones in the dressing room are often THE ones you want in front of the camera and the cocky ones often do either a straight shoddy or over-zealous (not to say embarrassing) job.

[StuOS]

I'm an actor who's new to the other side of the camera. I'm Equity, AFTRA, and SAG, and have appeared from coast to coast in the US on stage and from Europe to California in film and video productions. I've found this thread both amusing and (at times) infuriating, but since I'm so laid back, I'm just going to post some thoughts and hope that someone finds them useful.

1. Strait theater actors are easily the top of the heap for skills, but as someone else pointed out, theater skills will often hinder skilled actors from looking natural on camera. The theater "frame" is enormous, and the actor has to communicate with the person in the last row of the balcony where an audience member can't even see the actor's face. In film, your eyeball can be 10 feet high.

If you are working with a skilled theater actor, and you cannot get him or her to tone it down for on-camera work, tell him/her to imagine that s/he is acting for an audience of one, and that audience member is right next to the actor, peering intently at the actor's face. In most cases, you'll find that the actor speaks less loudly and spends more time listening and reacting than "communicating" across non-existent vast distances.

You can also try getting the actor to switch to sense-memory technique, or simply tell him or her to listen, feel, and react.

Note: This very well may not work for musical theater actors, who are generally the least-skilled actors in the theater community. Try to avoid these actors unless you know for sure that they are good on camera.

2. In the acting community, on-camera directors tend to be a running joke, albeit a bitter one. To be blunt, when it comes to acting, most on-camera directors don't know their butts from a fresnel. By ALL means, take some acting courses AND some directing courses. If you even know what a beat or an arc is, that will put you light years ahead of most. If you can say, for instance, "I'm thinking Pinteresque here" or "This is a Stoppard-type monologue" or "Im looking for the type of rhythm one might find in Shaw," you'll be worth your weight in wide angle lenses.

3. I honestly have no idea what it means when someone says to get an actor that is "committed to your project." I have done favors for people in the past, and I can assure you that I never give anything less than my best. An experienced actor will know what to do and when to do it, from such things as how to hit a mark every time to the invaluable process of doing his own continuity, and doing it well. In addition, you'll rarely find experienced actors ripping up your lavalier cables, complaining about hot lights, or getting too enervated during the waiting process to perform well. An experienced actor will often do his own makeup, will ask for the size of his frame and vary his delivery, body movement, and range of motion accordingly, and will always be on top of his lines.

4. If you MUST use inexperienced actors, telling them not to bulge their eyes is just likely to make them self-conscious, and that's the last thing you want. What you want is for them to be completely relaxed and to ignore the camera as much as possible. Inexperienced actors should just be themselves and sit around talking to other actors as normally as possible. If you have written some emotional scenes that are really difficult to do and you use inexperienced actors to do them, you will get the film you deserve.

5. You can find semi-experienced actors in a number of places. The last place I would look is a college theater department. Those kids are still getting their skills to meld, and they're theater skills. Generally, actors in college theater programs get much worse before they get better. In some markets, on-camera talent agencies have a number of eager beavers who are not getting many bookings and are looking for experience. Many of these agencies will send out an e-mail to their talent announcing your opportunity. In addition, it's a good idea to look up local people who train actors for camera work to see if any of their students would be interested in your project. At least that way, you'll bet people who know how to slate when you tell them to!

6. Rehearsals can be good or bad, depending on the talent. It gives experienced actors a means of connecting with one another and working through some transitions. It can make inexperienced actors shy, nervous, and tight. Use them at your own risk.

7. Never, never, NEVER give an experienced actor a line reading unless you want a face full of knuckles.

Good luck to all of you. I'm glad it's not ME in front of your cameras!!!

[mattias]

ok, i've directed a couple of award winning shorts and i'm starting to learn what i'm doing, but it's not exactly the same as what i was once taught so take it with a grain of salt and figure out your own method.

i like action verbs. i agree that most non actors as well as many actors don't know how to perform, it's a very hard thing to do. if you tell somebody they're supposed to be afraid, happy, disgusted, you will usually get crap, but if you tell them the character wants to be hugged, smile, or throw up, you might just get what you need. i also play a lot with secret instructions to each actor, forcing them to listen and react, something most people are pretty good at once the self consciousness imposed by the script is taken away. just add an action element, change the order of dialog lines, something small. the first few times they will get confused, but they will get there.

good luck,

/matt

[Philminder]

For non-actors, I think a really important thing is to keep encouraging them even if they're really bad. I mean, they kind of know they're not very good to begin with, but it would make things a whole lot worse if you keep saying things like "No, no, no...what was that?" I always just try to say "That was good, but let's try it this way now." And even if it's going terribly bad while filming and you know it will be unusable, try not to cut them in the middle of it. You don't want to annoy them or give them the idea they're not doing well enough.

I don't know what kind of movie you're doing (to the threadstarter), but when writing the script I try to make dialogue as natural as possible. Before anyone else, I want to be able to deliver it nicely. Know your characters and know your actors (or non-actors, in this case). If it's his first time acting, don't let your "class clown" friend take on the role of the serious badass.

I also like to physically run through shots with them. If they don't have much of an idea of how they want their character to act, I'll show them. I'll recite the lines, go where the character would go, etc. I guess actors would normally like their freedom in creating their character, but from my experience working with friends, I get the feeling that sometimes they worry that they're not living up to expectations or are not doing a good job. They often ask me, "how do you want me to say this?" or about their movements and stuff. Usually I know how I want it, but I'll let them do their interpretation of my interpretation. Nowadays, though, my friends are more comfortable with filming so they'll often have some ideas about what they think would be good for the character or what would be funny, and I like to just run with that. It's fun to see where it goes.

Really just try to keep a good atmosphere and spirits high. They're doing it voluntarily and for free, and if you can't make them want to be there, then you might not have much luck in directing them. I always like to think that it's just me and my friends hanging out, except with a camera on.

[mattias]

"That was good, but let's try it this way now."

very good advice. not only should you say it, you should mean it. allowing accidents to happen is crucial to all filmmaking, especially directing actors.

/matt

[StuOS]

I'll recite the lines, go where the character would go, etc. I guess actors would normally like their freedom in creating their character,

It's normal for a director to tell an actor where to move. After all, the camera shots have to work and, if the shot is tight, precise movement from mark to mark is critical.

I think it's perfectly OK to help an inexperienced actor by "reciting the lines," but never, never do this with an experienced actor. I wouldn't walk off the set if you did this to me, but I have friends who would not only walk off the set but would call their agents, the union, and tell all their friends they would be fools to work with you.

[mattias]

i think line readings are even worse to use on non professional actors. why increase the pressure even more, forcing them to perform something they're not trained to do? while i don't give line readings i would if i thought it would help, and i do treat professional actors like props once in a while, but with amateurs if you want it to become true you need to have a clever strategy.

/matt

[Hector]

The way I direct non actors is to SHOW them how I want them to deliver their lines. Usually a visual example will help non actors A LOT. It is usually hard to just tell them verbally. If you show them/act it out then they get a much better grasp of what it is you want.

My other tip is don't be afraid to do as many takes as it takes to get it down. MiniDV tape is really cheap now-a-days.

[marshallarts]

I think non-actors are almost as bad as actors in some situations. Most of the time people think acting is like going to the circus. The hardest part is finding people who take it maturely not necessarily seriously (not sure how to explain better what i'm trying to say here).

Here's what I tell non-actors (you have to say this differently to real actors because they usually think they know it all since they took a class once).

"Act like your undercover."

That's it. Nothing more. Think about it, an agent overseas is a far better actor than Russel Crowe ever will be. They just have to play the part the best they can and afford being caught. This works in most situations.

[StuOS]

Mashallarts:

That may be the single worst advice I have ever seen about acting in my entire life.

Heck. I must be one of those actors who "knows it all," because I took a course, ahm, well, make that about 100 or more "courses" over the years and a degree, in acting. Perhaps it's the fact that I actually made and make a living acting that makes me such a bad actor?