Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 209

Thread: Hmc-150

  1. #1
    A Moose spideralex90's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sarasota
    Posts
    1,609

    Default Hmc-150

    Anyone found any 'spectacular' footage from this camera? I've heard mixed reviews.

  2. #2

  3. #3
    A Moose spideralex90's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sarasota
    Posts
    1,609

    Default

    Eh, other than the watch shot, I'm not that impressed.

  4. #4
    Super Member Kyleman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Hillsboro, OR
    Posts
    1,183

    Default

    Yeah, the HMC150 might be fine if it was much cheaper. It also might be fine if you was just filming for web, I'm not that impressed by the HMC150 either.



    -Kyle

  5. #5
    A Moose spideralex90's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sarasota
    Posts
    1,609

    Default

    alright well thanks for the replies, i will not be purchasing this in the future. lol.

  6. #6
    Forum Mogul
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    814

    Default

    What are you guys smoking? THe HMC150 has the best low light performance of all the prosumer 1/3" cams out there! smokers I tell ya!

  7. #7
    Super Member Kyleman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Hillsboro, OR
    Posts
    1,183

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by booggerg View Post
    What are you guys smoking? THe HMC150 has the best low light performance of all the prosumer 1/3" cams out there! smokers I tell ya!
    AVCHD, and it's in a prosumer camera......Need I say more?



    -Kyle

  8. #8
    Forum Mogul
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    814

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyleman View Post
    AVCHD, and it's in a prosumer camera......Need I say more?



    -Kyle
    AVCHD at high bit rate(HMC150's unique ability) = better IQ than HDV. No dopouts, no carrying tapes.. All that plus being able to capture low noise image in low light.

    Need I say more?

  9. #9
    A Moose spideralex90's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sarasota
    Posts
    1,609

    Default

    AVCHD is still a new format, that frankly, still sucks, IMO. Show me impressive video, and i may change my opinion, but everything i've seen so far that is AVCHD isn't any better and generally worse than hdv.

  10. #10
    Super Member Kyleman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Hillsboro, OR
    Posts
    1,183

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by booggerg View Post
    AVCHD at high bit rate(HMC150's unique ability) = better IQ than HDV. No dopouts, no carrying tapes.. All that plus being able to capture low noise image in low light.

    Need I say more?
    Yeah, good luck editing! I'll be done by the time you will get the codecs to be compatible!



    -Kyle

  11. #11
    Formerly Known As "Aramis"
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,687

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyleman View Post
    AVCHD, and it's in a prosumer camera......Need I say more?
    I bet this is what some snobby pros were saying about HDV five years ago: "MPEG-2 at measly 25Mbit/s on a consumer DVC tape, need I say more?" No wait, BBC still holds this point of view, it considers HDV to be standard definition, nevertheless usage of HDV even in broadcast TV is now quite common.

    AVC is better than MPEG-2 (though current implementation may not be perfect, the same was right about HDV five years ago). Tapeless is better than tape-based. Accept it. Why would Sony come up with a silly CompactFlash unit for a whopping $900 if tape were so good?

    HMC150 is a great camera, though if it were $1K cheaper it would be even better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyleman View Post
    Yeah, good luck editing! I'll be done by the time you will get the codecs to be compatible!
    Vegas 8.0c reads HMC150's files, all from 720p24 to 720p60 to 1080p24. No problems at all. Speed on a four-core machine is good enough to edit native tracks without intermediate codecs.

  12. #12
    Forum Mogul
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    814

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyleman View Post
    Yeah, good luck editing! I'll be done by the time you will get the codecs to be compatible!



    -Kyle
    Eh? Here's list of editors that supports AVCHD.. pulled from wikipedia:

    The following video-editing software features support for the AVCHD format:

    * Adobe Premiere Pro (from version CS4 onward)
    * Adobe Premiere Elements (from version 7 onward)
    * Apple's Final Cut Express 4, Final Cut 6.0.1, and iMovie '08 (Bundled with all new macs) do not support editing of AVCHD clips directly. Imported AVCHD clips are auto-converted into the Apple Intermediate Codec format, .[19]
    * ArcSoft's TotalMedia Extreme
    * Avid Xpress Pro, Avid Media Composer
    * Corel's Ulead DVD MovieFactory 6
    * CyberLink's PowerDirector 6
    * Grass Valley's Edius 5.0
    * Nero 7 Ultra Edition Enhanced and Nero 8 Ultra Edition are software suites which contains the AVCHD editor, found in Nero Vision. Also included in this suite is Nero Showtime, which plays AVCHD files natively. Edited video can also be burned to DVD discs in AVCHD format for playback on hardware players or in Blu-ray format.
    * Pinnacle's Studio Plus 11 & 12, now even better with 12.1
    * Sony Vegas 7.0e
    * Vegas Pro 8
    * Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 8
    * Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 9
    * TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress.

    * Other developers have pledged their support but it may still take some time for the implementation.

    have fun swapping tapes and digitizing!

  13. #13
    Super Member Kyleman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Hillsboro, OR
    Posts
    1,183

    Default

    At least I'll be getting a quality image, unlike the s h i t t y compressed AVCHD cameras. And I will already have a backup on tape, so I don't have to throw backups on a HDD. Wow, and it takes a few minutes to capture and I'm done. AVCHD is just stupid, it would be fine if it was on a CF card and was under a different codec, something like REDCODE.



    -Kyle

  14. #14
    Forum Mogul
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    814

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyleman View Post
    At least I'll be getting a quality image, unlike the s h i t t y compressed AVCHD cameras. And I will already have a backup on tape, so I don't have to throw backups on a HDD. Wow, and it takes a few minutes to capture and I'm done. AVCHD is just stupid, it would be fine if it was on a CF card and was under a different codec, something like REDCODE.



    -Kyle
    Nice, argument ADDs from codec support to archival and IQ..

    I'm taking the liberty of quoting your post now so you may eat your words at a later time.

    cheers

  15. #15
    Super Member Kyleman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Hillsboro, OR
    Posts
    1,183

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by booggerg View Post
    Nice, argument goes from codec support to archival and IQ..

    I'm taking the liberty of quoting your post now so you may eat your words at a later time.
    Sure, enjoy your "Prosumer" HMC150 with your consumer format! Oh, and try using your HMC150 for anything other than Web, won't happen. Jesus, people on this forum are getting dumber.



    -Kyle

  16. #16
    Formerly Known As "Aramis"
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,687

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyleman View Post
    people on this forum are getting dumber.
    I won't argue with this one.

  17. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyleman View Post
    At least I'll be getting a quality image, unlike the s h i t t y compressed AVCHD cameras. And I will already have a backup on tape, so I don't have to throw backups on a HDD. Wow, and it takes a few minutes to capture and I'm done. AVCHD is just stupid, it would be fine if it was on a CF card and was under a different codec, something like REDCODE.
    The HMC150 pushes AVCHD nearly to the maximum bitrate possible for the codec. AVCHD at 24Mbps is inarguably technically superior to HDV. You would be correct if you were talking about low bitrate consumer AVCHD cameras, but the HMC150 is capable of outputting a higher resolution image than is possible with HDV.

    I don't understand how using a CF card would make any difference. You know the HMC shoots on cheap, easily available SD cards, right?

    Why would you be unable to use the HMC for anything other than web? Why would that "not happen"?

    I actually agree that the camera is not ready for prime time, the price point is simply too high. In a year or two when they start showing up on the used market and the MSRP is dropped by a grand or so, I'll probably pick one up. Editing should be easier by then as well.

  18. #18
    Super Member Kyleman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Hillsboro, OR
    Posts
    1,183

    Default

    Yes, but CF has one of the fastest speeds available for a reasonable price. The HMC150 is way too blotchy for anything other than web. Why is that? AVCHD of course. And everyone seems to craze resolution all the time, sure, the HMC150 has 1920x1080. But you must have PQ to match the resolution, which the HMC150 certainly does not. If you want a tapeless camera, your best bet is an HVX or EX1. More so the EX1 as of now. Sure, the solid state media for them isn't cheap, but it works really well and those cameras don't compress as high and has a much better format to work with.



    -Kyle

  19. #19
    Legend Ian-T's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    6,676

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fishops View Post
    The HMC150 pushes AVCHD nearly to the maximum bitrate possible for the codec. AVCHD at 24Mbps is inarguably technically superior to HDV. You would be correct if you were talking about low bitrate consumer AVCHD cameras, but the HMC150 is capable of outputting a higher resolution image than is possible with HDV.
    I agree with what you are saying here in regards to the AVCHD codec. On paper it's a much more efficient codec than HDV. But wouldn't a limiting factor on this particular camera be its 960x540 CCDs where it uses pixel shifting to bring it back up to 1920x1080? I know it also shoots 720p. 720p is where I think this cam would benefit more with the AVCHD being that it would be less compressed than the 1080p it also shoots. But no matter what the picture would be softer than a "true" 1920x1080 sensor or even the A1's 1440x1080 sensor due to its use of pixel shift technology. It's all of course just my opinion....but I'm eager to hear yours.

    Edit: I guess the bottom line in terms of resolution is how many lines the cameras can actually resolve...right?
    Last edited by Ian-T; 2008 November 14th at 19:38.
    "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" ...Albert Einstein

  20. #20
    Moderator Eugenia Loli-Queru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Bay Area, CA, USA
    Posts
    5,270

    Default

    The HMC150 pushes AVCHD nearly to the maximum bitrate possible for the codec. AVCHD at 24Mbps is inarguably technically superior to HDV
    Technically, 24mbps AVCHD with a *mature* h.264 codec is better quality than HDV, yes. I think though, the HMC150 only goes up to 21mbps, which was a negative surprise to me.

    Read the review here btw:
    http://dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=150210
    the guy says that the HMC150 is really a 720p camera because of the 3 low-res CCDs. When Canon releases an AVCHD prosumer camera at full 1080p CMOS, at 24mbps, then we start talking.

  21. #21
    Legend Ian-T's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    6,676

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenia Loli-Queru View Post
    the guy says that the HMC150 is really a 720p camera because of the 3 low-res CCDs.
    ...ok thanks..I think this is basically what I was saying.
    "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" ...Albert Einstein

  22. #22
    Howdy, pilgrim! Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    CA & FL
    Posts
    2,407

    Default

    The problem with the AVCHD codec is it wasn't originally developed for a prosumer camera. It was developed for those little consumer cameras. If I remember correctly the standard only goes up to 24mbps, and very few cameras actually go that high. Consumer cameras are limited to about 11-13 mbps.

    There are prosumer cameras that use the AVCHD idea with a much higher bit rate. I think the PMW-EX1 is one of them at 35mbps. Then you can't use the cheap CF cards because they aren't fast enough. P2 cards are expensive.

    The HMC150 does variable bit rates from 21-24 in highest quality, but Ian-T is right it's has to use pixel shifting just to get to 1 megapixel, then doubles that to get 1920x1080 which is 2 megapixels. I like all the ideas in the camera except the sensor. Even the 170 is that way and produces a nice 720p picture, but softer at 1080.

    Why would anyone build the recording system that saves at TrueHD, but a quarter sized sensor? Dang! I even thought of using it as a recording deck if it had inputs, run your HV20 to it with HDMI...

  23. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyleman View Post
    Yes, but CF has one of the fastest speeds available for a reasonable price. The HMC150 is way too blotchy for anything other than web.
    You are either trolling or willfully ignorant. All of the HMC150 footage I've seen that was shot in the highest quality mode has been broadcast quality. Show me the "blotches" you're talking about, I've never seen them. I will go out on a limb and say that if you shot the same scene with an HMC150 and a HPX170 you would have a hard time telling which footage came from which camera (i have done this and it's not easy)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian-T View Post
    Edit: I guess the bottom line in terms of resolution is how many lines the cameras can actually resolve...right?
    That was what I meant by resolution in my previous posts, not number of pixels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenia Loli-Queru View Post
    Technically, 24mbps AVCHD with a *mature* h.264 codec is better quality than HDV, yes. I think though, the HMC150 only goes up to 21mbps, which was a negative surprise to me.
    Not true. The maximum quality setting is variable bitrate. 21mbps is the lowest possible rate, 24 is the highest. Even if it was limited to 21, that would still be superior to HDV. The point at which AVCHD pulls ahead of HDV in terms of usable image information contained in the stream is at around the 19Mbps mark.

    the guy says that the HMC150 is really a 720p camera because of the 3 low-res CCDs. When Canon releases an AVCHD prosumer camera at full 1080p CMOS, at 24mbps, then we start talking.
    It's definitely a 720P camera at heart, the 1080 mode isn't great.

  24. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
    The problem with the AVCHD codec is it wasn't originally developed for a prosumer camera. It was developed for those little consumer cameras. If I remember correctly the standard only goes up to 24mbps, and very few cameras actually go that high. Consumer cameras are limited to about 11-13 mbps.
    That's true, but we're not talking about consumer cameras. The HMC150 shoots between 21 and 24mpbs with its high quality VBR mode. It's better than HDV.

    There are prosumer cameras that use the AVCHD idea with a much higher bit rate. I think the PMW-EX1 is one of them at 35mbps. Then you can't use the cheap CF cards because they aren't fast enough. P2 cards are expensive.
    The EX1 shoots XDCAM which is a totally different story. Nothing whatsoever to do with AVCHD.

    I like all the ideas in the camera except the sensor. Even the 170 is that way and produces a nice 720p picture, but softer at 1080.
    I'm totally with you on this one. I love everything about the camera, from the solid build to the ergonomics to the cheap SD media to the lens, but Canon has such a better imager it's not even in the ballpark. My dream camera is basically an HMC-150 with interchangable lenses and a 2/3" Canon sensor.

  25. #25
    Super Member Kyleman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Hillsboro, OR
    Posts
    1,183

    Default

    * message removed by mod. *



    -Kyle

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •