Those shoots that just HAVE to go wrong... (tell us about yours!)

[Daniel Rutter]

I'm sure you guys have them.

Warning: Rant ahead.

I'm in the middle of editing a trainwreck of a live performance shoot for a client... its plagued by audio issues all through the mix, not to mention that it was my first time behind the camera that night right after a cup of coffee, so I was restless and jumpy (imagine how the camera work suffered).

I've had jobs like this before, but I was charging a third of what I do now (or not actually getting paid at all) so I didn't get too upset with my shooting issues. For the most part, they were for not-so-good metal bands in some local gig that for the most part only did covers. I remember copping crap from the "audio engineer" (some kid behind the $2000 mixing desk thinking he knew exactly what he was doing) every time I told him I needed some help with recording better audio (these metal kids love their music turned up to 11...).

Anyway, this recent gig has really made me feel rotten. I love doing videos at Midnite Cafe, they're a great venue... the guys doing the mixing are usually really good and most of the time I get some really good footage. But I don't know why, but this gig in particular just had to be a bad one. I managed to scrape together quite a good set of clips from one artist (with minimal audio problems), but my first shoot from that night is an absolute catastrophe.

Which brings me to the conclusion, and I guess the question I have as well. I've had to shave a few dollars off my price due to these issues, and it bugs me when I've not had these issues at this venue before. I guess it was one of those days though.

Do you guys ever get shoots like this? In fact, why not share your horror stories for gigs and shoots you've had.

[cgbier]

So, in other words, it was the first time you shot a metal concert and your levels were too hot? Not sure what your problem was there.

I think, you have another, business related, problem: do you have a "screw-up" clause in your contracts? You screw up, you return the money. Claim technical issues and explain them what happened (don't blame anyone - it just happened). Don't shave off some pesos. ... And don't forget to apologize.

Was it the same place were you did the other shots? Are you there for the sound checks normally?

[Daniel Rutter]

So, in other words, it was the first time you shot a metal concert and your levels were too hot? Not sure what your problem was there.

It always happens when I don't format my paragraphs. I used to shoot metal concerts (don't you remember all those crappy videos I submitted to the site years ago?).
This one I was shooting was an easy listening gig at Midnite Cafe (I posed Katy & Dallas' clips in the footage section...) and copped a lot of issues.

Nobody signs contracts when I work for them, because I'm no longer running what I do as a business... just a hobby (that for the most part I'm pretty good at).

Anyway, the point was to rant. In truth, I wanted to hear other peoples screw-ups in video related (or audio even) gigs and shoots. You know... horror stories! Surely you have a few CG.

[cgbier]

Yeah, I had a major fluster cuck last year. Our summer interns had their final presentation.
Setup: three Canon XL, footage running directly into a switcher, audio going via a DAT recorder into the switcher. From there into a laptop for Internet streaming. Master tape recorded to Sony Deck (analog in).
Streaming worked out perfectly well. However, when I got mthe master tape on my desk, there was no sound. Figures that the analog amp of the deck was shot. So I asked the guys if I can have at least the DAT tapes. "uhm, we forgot to record the DAT".

I had now four hours of presentations without any audio...

[HueyNRolf]

Daniel, Live sound is very hard to get right. Getting a feed off the desk is dicey because there's many variables involved. If the engineer is giving you a FOH mix, it may not work for your video recording. Commercially, each sound is recorded separately and mixed later by a skilled sound guy.

I lucked out when I did that live shoot for 'Superfunktion.' Maybe you remember? But that was recorded off a $25,000 automated desk operated by a professional in-house engineer. He did a FOH and recording mix separately. Oh how nice to just get the two cameras right and not even have to think about the sound.

But hey, you've done some good sound work of late. If the sound is out of your hands and you're at the mercy of the sound guy on the night, it's a good idea to explain this up front to your client.

[Almohada]

Hey I just saw a video of yours that you're talking about, it came up on my subscriptions... ouch the audio is distorted that's all. Yeah aside from having a separate mix, I think just having the audio down low at a safe level will keep it from peaking and in turn distorting. Everything sounds good to me except the distorted peaks.

[Playing]

Hi Huey maybe you can give me some idea here: I have recorded a concert off the board. The recorder never clipped, but there was some bad distortion off one microphone in one song. Now I am under the impression that what comes out of the rec output is the same as what goes to the speakers. But in this instance the sound from the camera microphone was OK. In other words the speakers got a good signal but the recorder did not. Does that make any sense to you?

[HueyNRolf]

Hi Huey maybe you can give me some idea here: I have recorded a concert off the board. The recorder never clipped, but there was some bad distortion off one microphone in one song. Now I am under the impression that what comes out of the rec output is the same as what goes to the speakers. But in this instance the sound from the camera microphone was OK. In other words the speakers got a good signal but the recorder did not. Does that make any sense to you?

Hi Playing, there are too many variables involved to identify the problem with any confidence. One thing that comes to mind is the signal matching the input of your recorder. Record out from the desk is usually at line level and a lot of recorders have only a mic-level input. This can cause problems because the signal will be too hot. One solution is use inline attenuators to pad it down. Of course, this is a shot in the dark, but it would be good practice in this situation.

It's strange that the mic blew for just one song. Maybe the engineer pushed the gain for just this part and pushed the signal over the limit for your recorder.

[EvilBastardProductions]

Oh Gawd.. Live shoots can be such a PITA!!! I have had problems with:
lighting- either no lighting guy, so just on flat colour for the entire show aka looks boring, or the light is constantly changing, affecting shot quality.
sound quality- the mixing desk is useless at the best of times, the mix is usually set up for the venue, and often changes during the set- its not much good for anything but supplementary sound. The on-camera mic is completely useless of course, and my el-cheapo shotgun mic sounds great, the sound pressure level it can take is amazing, but if you move the camera you can get a phasing effect which is problematic to say the least.

And then there's the punters, especially at hardcore shows. The amount of times I have been deliberately kicked, or jumped into by invisible-ninja-fighting-hardcore-dancing wankers just so they could blow my shot (let alone the amount of times this has happened by accident) is phenomenal. And you can bet they wouldn't even consider paying for the camera if it gets broken through their general douchiness..

[Playing]

It's strange that the mic blew for just one song. Maybe the engineer pushed the gain for just this part and pushed the signal over the limit for your recorder.

Thanks Huey. The Zoom H1 can handle line level and it never clipped. Maybe the problem was just less pronounced in the hall off the speakers.

But yes recording off the board has it's problem. One friendly engineer switched it off during interval to save my battery and then forgot to switch it back on until half way trough the second half.

Next time I will use my recorder and 3 cameras. But then the venue manager will tell me the only place I can set up a tripod is behind a speaker stack on the shaking wooden floor.

[HueyNRolf]

Maybe the problem was just less pronounced in the hall off the speakers.

That's the most likely explanation. The sound guy will be mixing for the room, so if he pushes something and it sounds OK, then he's done his job. Of course what sounds fine for the house, doesn't necessarily work for your recording.

The best way to ensure a good soundtrack for a live gig is either:

1. Take an insert from each feed to the desk and record them separately to a multitrack recorder. Then skillfully mix it in post. This is best, but gets expensive and requires cooperation from the house and mixing skills.

2. Work only houses that can provide a usable recording of the performance. Workable but ask to hear recordings before you agree to do the job.

Jacking into the desk can work, but it can go wrong just as easily (you'll be rolling the dice). If none of the above, I'd be inclined to not waste time and energy on such a project. If your friendly local band is nagging you to shoot a live gig, then offer to do a music vid instead, much less hassle.

[Janke]

My worst goof:

When my Tascam DR-07 audio recorder was brand new, I once forgot to press the record twice to get it started (once just shows the levels) - had to re-shoot a 12 minute scene...

Once, never more - I hope...

[Playing]

Thanks Huey, it's always good to get your feedback.
The next thing that would be nice to control is the lights.

[cgbier]

So far i've been lucky with recordings off the desk. However, we only do open air gigs. Indoors, I only do talking heads. They can easily be EQ'ed in post.

[HueyNRolf]

So far i've been lucky with recordings off the desk. However, we only do open air gigs. Indoors, I only do talking heads. They can easily be EQ'ed in post.

Ah yes Talking Heads, great band.

[cgbier]

No, I'm afraid not THESE Talking Heads..... But a great band, indeed!

[azmyth]

No, I'm afraid not THESE Talking Heads..... But a great band, indeed!

Too many directors?
Somehow managing to run out of charged batteries, on a time crunch shoot.
forgetting the battery charger and having to send someone to get it
someone wearing the wrong shirt, requiring us to reshoot an entire scene.
NOISE! Cars driving by every 2 seconds making it impossible to get clean audio, therefore causing a 2-3 page scene of dialog to take triple the time.
Batteries in the zoom H4N dying middle of a take.
Card becoming full during a take
Generator running out of gas
Generator needing oil


Basically a bunch of minor stuff, that can be managed if proper attention is taken (most of the time it is) but sometimes for whatever reason you just forget stuff. That's why a good script super and everyone paying attention to continuty is so important.

[Almohada]

well... we learn from these mistakes. Each shoot just gets better and better. Not only do they run smoother due to the learning experiences from past shoots but also, in my case, I tend to siphon out the helpers who didn't really help and I try to put together a better team. During a new shoot, it comes down to assembling a new team and so I pick those few best/ focused/ dedicated friends from each of my last shoots and put them all on one team. So after a few shoots, a strong team is in place.

[Steve_Karl]

My worst goof:

When my Tascam DR-07 audio recorder was brand new, I once forgot to press the record twice to get it started (once just shows the levels) - had to re-shoot a 12 minute scene...

Once, never more - I hope...

I did that same exact mistake with my Zoom H2 when I first got it. I missed about 12 minutes of a great thunder storm.
Luckily no related video was being shot. I was just wanting to grab the thunder and rain and wind.

[mark84j]

My biggest goof was having my XH-A1's gain set at Medium (+3) during a wedding, and couldn't figure out why the picture looked so overexposed. Just kind of sat there and called myself an idiot for an hour.

[drapeama]

When my Tascam DR-07 audio recorder was brand new, I once forgot to press the record twice to get it started (once just shows the levels) - had to re-shoot a 12 minute scene...

Did the same once. You know what saved me that time? Dual-audio recording! I've plugged the headphone's output to the HV40 internal mic's input and recorded what's been monitored via the DR-05 with the HV40. So I had a good and clean audio, on tape. I prefer to have .wav audio to play with in post, but this time, no one noticed the difference.

Other than that, I don't recall any "major" mistakes. I usually fear the fails so I check 2-3 times everything (when it's not for my personal projects= which I could live with errors/issues due to myself).

[Seo]

I have a great audio guy, but he complains a lot about the gear he operates. I'm very involved in the camera department since I direct and operate camera, so we always get nifty new gear and everything works perfectly. But his one man band sort of gets ignored sometimes. On one Foley recording session, the XLR cable dropped out on so many takes (we didn't have a replacement) so we just gave up entirely. It was a cheapo that I got in China – figures.

Same thing happened on an actual shoot that I recently did for a web series. We had been going for a few hours and been making slow but steady progress, but once we got to the scenes with lots of location sound, he couldn't boom at all. Besides the cable dropping out, our shockmount wasn't tightening properly due to a missing part, and gaffer taping a shockmount isn't the best way to position the mic. Eventually we just had to call it a day and reshoot when we had fully functional equipment.

Thankfully we've replaced everything since then, but I'll definitely pay more attention to the audio gear in the future.