Low-budget recommendations for Dungeon-themed monster movie please

[Deus Flux]

Hey everybody! While shooting is still a ways off, I like to be prepared. This would be my first movie where I will have full control of the setting (meaning the entire rooms will be fake on a set). I'm hoping some of you here can help me out. The movie i'm working on takes place in dungeon-type rooms that measure maybe about 25 x 25 feet (and smaller/slimmer for corridors).

Any low cost yet effective lights (and stands for them to fit on) you could recommend for properly lighting such areas. I feel confident enough with other areas of making the movie, but lighting has always been the tricky spot of mine and i'm trying to improve it and I want the lighting for this project to look right (of course a lot of tests will be shot to get it right before even attempting to shoot the real thing, only a fool would try otherwise ).

I'll be using what cameras I have access to at this point, which are 2 Canon HV10's. And I know these things need a lot of bright light.

The thing is I would like to use some color themes for the movie, specifically a 'cold' blue. Any color gels or similar you could recommend to use on the lights?

Another thing i'm wondering about is what is the best type of lens to help achieve 'monster vision', where the camera would act as the monster's vision, with arms attached to a rig of some kind to reach out and 'attack'. I'd like something a bit distorted, something that makes the monsters appear sort of blind or poor vision -- perhaps a fisheye lens but what type?

Thanks, and a mock-up of one of the monsters is attached below, if that helps in any way.

EDIT: I know there's some technical stuff in this post, but also on the art side of things. I felt it would fit better here than the equipment section, sorry if it doesn't belong here though. Please move it if it needs to be.

Monster.png

[MrMicah]

I am definitely no expert, but some things which occur to me:

As a dungeon theme, would it be suitable that lots of the set was in (near) darkness with just the "action" being the monsters or characters lit? That would seem to imply something reasonably focussed and not a flood lit style.

If you work with more focussed (even on-camera) lights, if the background (walls etc) are too near the talent they may be lit in a way which is inconsistent with the rest of the 'dungeon' ambience.

If the concept is torchlight as the lighting in the dungeon, I think there are post processes which can give a flickering effect, but you might also see if there are lights that create a flicker effect - in which case you probably want auto everything 'off' on the camera. If its a bit more modern day and the talent is using electrical torches (flashlights) then this seems to come back to a very focussed type of beam and it might be possible just to work with some (high powered) flashlights?

For monster vision, you could possibly shoot in lower light, just at the level to get something you can work with, but really grainy, and then show it as monochrome. Although this may not suit when your monsters 'see' your talent with torches of one sort or another.

[Deus Flux]

Thanks MrMicah! A lot of the things you mentioned are very similar to the ideas i've had.

[[As a dungeon theme, would it be suitable that lots of the set was in (near) darkness with just the "action" being the monsters or characters lit? That would seem to imply something reasonably focussed and not a flood lit style.]]

I've thought of this, and I do like the idea but i'm hoping to have the background environment lit well enough (at least at key points) for it to still have it a bit 'interaction' with the main character. For example, I have made breakaway dungeon 'bars' for which the creature(s) in the 'next' room can peer through the bars with their eyes glowing and when the character would get close enough, the creature's arm breaks through the bars to grab the character.

[[If you work with more focussed (even on-camera) lights, if the background (walls etc) are too near the talent they may be lit in a way which is inconsistent with the rest of the 'dungeon' ambience.]]

I agree, hopefully I can figure a way around this.

[[If the concept is torchlight as the lighting in the dungeon, I think there are post processes which can give a flickering effect, but you might also see if there are lights that create a flicker effect - in which case you probably want auto everything 'off' on the camera. If its a bit more modern day and the talent is using electrical torches (flashlights) then this seems to come back to a very focussed type of beam and it might be possible just to work with some (high powered) flashlights?]]

I like the flickering lights idea and have tried to think of a solution before. I thought of some kind of strobe light but I think that could become a disaster.
The setting is more of a 'Hell' setting with medieval and fantasy type weapons (spiked clubs, hooked chains, axes, cleavers, hammers etc.) with blueish-gray 'stone' walls. I'd like to use torches or candles as long as I don't burn my set down.

[[For monster vision, you could possibly shoot in lower light, just at the level to get something you can work with, but really grainy, and then show it as monochrome. Although this may not suit when your monsters 'see' your talent with torches of one sort or another.]]

Hmm.. I think some of this could be useful but isn't really what I mean (my fault, I probably didn't word it right. I'm thinking something more along the lines of a physical lens attachment that makes the image appear warped from each side. Kinda how a frog would see, sorta from side to side instead of straight ahead because their eyes are so far apart.

Thanks again for your help, it's very much appreciated.

Spiked club.jpg

[Janke]

Whatever you do, don't show the monster too well (if at all!) - that's what spoils all low-budget monster movies.

A good monster that can be shown is going to be really expensive to make / make-up. Not recommended for amateurs!

Think of Hitchcock-type suspense, that will work much better - but will require a good script, good acting and direction. If you can do that, then you may have a winner!

Of course, if you're making a crazy, cult comedy, then forget all the above...

[Deus Flux]

I understand what you mean, Janke. I don't think i'd ever want to show one of the monsters in 'full', especially under normal lighting conditions -- but perhaps in partial shadow / silhouetted. Then when one of the monsters would actually be 'attacking', I'd like to show only parts of it in each shot (only show a mouth biting an arm for example, then a separate shot of a claw swinging, etc.)

"A good monster that can be shown"

Are you saying my monster is crap, sir? It has retreated back into its dark hole from whence it came. But yeh, I know what you mean. I don't plan to show anything like that in the movie without it being lit accordingly.

Hitchcock is great, I wish he was still alive today. Birds is one of my favorites. I've actually heavily considered making this movie black and white, I really like how it looks. In fact, a good 25-30 minutes of this movie was already shot years ago in standard def. but for various reasons it wasn't finished. It was in B&W and I was really happy with how it was turning out.

I remember we had a really cool shot we spent hours getting right -- a monster arm stretched out from the basement, went around and up the stairs, grabbed the basement doorknob and slammed the door shut.

Now in the HD age, though, i'd rather start over and shoot it in HD with all the work that will go into it.

Has anyone else here made a monster movie? I'd like to check them out.

Thanks Janke!

[Deus Flux]

Since there's a good chance this movie may end up being black and white, I have some questions/possible problems. I know many people recommend to shoot in color and then turn footage black and white in post.

But in this, there will be a fair amount of blood. If I shoot in color, red blood won't look right when turned black and white. So even if I shot in color, i'd still have to use black blood so the blood would look right when the footage is turned black and white.

Could I have some opinions on what route you guys would recommend me taking? Shoot black and white in camera with black blood or shoot in color with black blood then turn the footage black and white in post? Which do you think would turn out better?

[Janke]

You can do whatever you want in post if you shoot red blood in color - even make it green. Simple color matting/adjustment.

[Dr. Benway]

shoot in color with black blood

Just make sure whatever the blood comes in contact with provides enough contrast. Dark red blood on someone's NIИ shirt wouldn't look that great in B&W.

[cgbier]

A green filter?

[Erik Bien]

Small "disco" strobes or flash units for still photography won't give you the effect you're looking for: the duration of the flashes is simply too brief to work on camera, and you'll end up with a bunch of weird-looking frames where the strobe only illuminates a fraction of the shot.

My favorite way to simulate flickering firelight is the Magic Gadgets Shadowmaker: plug a few lights into it, add various strengths of amber or CTO gel, bounce or diffuse them onto your set, twiddle the knobs until you like the effect, and move on to other tasks. There's also a similar device with a light sensor that can be placed near a practical (real) flame to make the flickering rise and fall in sync with the real fire. If production can afford the rental, they make great "set it and forget it" firelight effects. Grips wiggling strips of gel, or even their gloved fingers, in front of each light or twiddling hand-dimmers can achieve similar effects, but that's really too labor-intensive to be practical for anything beyond a brief scene or two.

Although it isn't as controllable and won't cover as wide a shot, you can build a "poor man's" flicker gag with the kind of old-school candelabra-base Christmas "twinkle" lights that flick off when they get hot, and flick on again when they cool. Build a shallow box out of foamcore, with the sockets pushed through the back, and face it with a patchwork of colored gel scraps held together with clear packing tape.

Using real fire on a set constructed of typical materials is inherently dangerous and not recommended unless you have an FX coordinator experienced in such things, but it's possible to build small, hand-held "flame bars" from gas cylinders meant for small plumbing torches and copper tubing drilled with holes.

For the "monster vision" effect, you might want to experiment with a Lensbaby on a DSLR or DoF adapter: they're cheap, fairly crude lenses that let you move the focal plane around by hand. If that's not an option, you could always experiment with gunking up your existing lens: buy a cheap "disposable" UV filter and see what you get shooting through it when spritzed with water droplets, or sprinkled with cornstarch, or smeared with Vaseline, and so on. You might also want to experiment with strong color, either with lighting or perhaps using a filter meant for black & white photography.

[Janke]

For the "monster vision" effect, you might want to experiment with a Lensbaby

Or, get a piece of "irregular" glass* and put that in front of your "regular" lens...

* glass tile, bathroom door glass, art glass, bottle glass, anything that distorts...

[Bertzie]

Light the room with torches. That'll give it an authentic dungeon feel, and the constantly changing light will give good effect on a hard to see monster.

[MrMicah]

I think Erik has some god ideas.

Irregular glass, maybe orange / yellow that is moved or rotated in front of your light source can give you a flickering effect like torches, but without the challenges of a naked flame. I think I've seen a cheap disco ball rotator that could probably turn a bottle in front of a light source.

As suggested, a lensbaby, or using cheap UV filter and various type of transparent / translucent smear could be good.

I'm not sure if there might be a bokeh or mask-type template you put over the front of the lens for divided looking vision?

[Deus Flux]

Thanks again guys, very useful info! I'm still looking into things but I believe I 'may' have solved the fire issue! What do you guys think? I can't buy anything else right now, but it would be cool to have some of these things on set. Ideally though, i'd rather build my own. Building my own would save money (hopefully) be unique to the movie and perhaps look more realistic. They sound simple in concept, but i'd just have to know the right kinds of lights to use. Any ideas what lights these things use?

From ebay: "The flame effect is created by a fan in the torch blowing an orange flame shaped silk-like cloth and a light shining up onto the cloth. It is really a pretty realist looking effect. The torch measures 11.5" tall with flame extended and 7.5" without flame. The handle portion is bronze in color. These run on 2 AA batteries(not included). Each one comes with a black base and can be used as seen in picture or can be turned over to attach to a wall using the velcro pieces that are attached to the back of the base. Add these to your haunted house or grave yard or just carry them with you as you take the trick-or-treators down to the "dungeon". They really create a great looking effect."

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SET-OF-4-TOR...item4607a5eebf



EDIT: "Two high-intensity quartz halogen tinted bulbs are used, an imbedded high speed fan, and specially arranged silk fabric to create
the illusion of fire. A forceful column of rushing air suspends the fabric in midair (and collapses when turned off).

With precise components positioned just right (bulbs are permanently angled 45 degrees), the effect is complete."

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FLAME-LAMP-b...item519d3b43ac

FLAMESILKhangingOPT.jpg

Hmm...