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Thread: 1920x1080 vs 1440x1080

  1. #1
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    Default is this real widescreen

    i shot some stuff in hd24p mode and then downconverted it to be edited in premiere pro. i opened the project as widescreen. the capture looked normal but after adding footage to the sequence window the picture in the preview window looked squished and it got rendered squished too. the best result i've had so far is to open a 4:3 project and render it as square pixels. that comes out letter box style on my t.v. but i'm assuming it's not going to work right on a widescreen t.v.. is the hd24p from the camera true widescreen in the first place?

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    Moderator Eugenia Loli-Queru's Avatar
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    Yes it is. You did something wrong on your NLE, or your NLE is buggy.

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    It is widescreen (16:9 to be exact), but it is anamorphic widescreen. The PAR (pixel aspect ratio) of HDV is 1:1.33. If you view it with square pixels, it will appear to be 4:3. You should have your NLE interpret it as HDV pixels and then you will see it in te correct aspect ratio, stretched to 1920 x 1080 = 16:9.

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    Administrator Lunchbox's Avatar
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    Did you say you down convert it to SD? If so, it would be 720x480 with aspect ratio of 1:1.2

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    yes this only happens when i'm down converting to sd on the camera. if i open a widescreen project in premiere and follow the process through with the default settings i end up with a thick border around all sides of my rendered output. if i tell premiere to interpret the footage as widescreen that's when it comes out squished.

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    Default I am baffled by the resolution (aspect ratio)...

    Hi... I just picked up HV20 and am learning hard to harness its power.

    One thing that baffles me is the resolution.

    My HV20 captures are in 1440x1080 resolution which I guess is in HD format.

    But when I try to export the project in Premiere (with AME, MPEG2), I see that the preset for HDTV format (1080i) is 1920x1080, not 1440x1080.

    Of course when I export with this preset, I get black bars on either side of the clip.

    720p is 1280x720 resolution which is not same aspect ratio as HV20.

    So what's going on? Is HV20 format a faux HD?

    What am I supposed use? 1080i or just change the resolution to match that of HV20?

    I am going crazy with this HD stuff. Hep me!!!

  7. #7
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    HV20 uses HDV format which is anamorphic HD at 1440x1080. The PAR (pixel aspect ratio) is 1.333. If you interpret footage correctly in Premiere so that the PAR is 1.333, then it will look fine when you output it at 1920x1080 (1440 x 1.333 = 1920).

    Actually, don't export it at 1920x1080 - that's a waste of pixels. Export it as HDV 1440x1080 with PAR =1.333, and whatever you play it on hopefully will know how to interpret it as 1920x1080
    Last edited by Frank; 2007 September 23rd at 02:50. Reason: Additional suggestion

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    Default still little confusing...

    I looked into the setting and you are right! I understand that part of the reason but I am still little confused.

    When I used "Adobe Media Encoder" then "MPEG2" format, there are many presets.

    When I choose "1440x1080i" preset, I see that 1.333 is available in PAR option.

    But when I choose "HDTV 1080i", 1.333 is not available.

    I guess this mean that I have to use "1440x1080i" to encode the clips that I have from HV20.

    My question is... will the final output be HD compatible?

    Isn't HDTVs in 1940x1080 resolution? Then wouldn't 1440x1080 look funny on the screen?

    Thanks for your help!

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    Note that HDV is not the same as HDTV. HDV is a lower resolution than full HD, that's why you will find HD settings in the edit program.

    From Wikipedia:

    "HDV 1080i uses a resolution of 1440×1080 pixels, but is still displayed with an aspect ratio of 16:9 (like SD widescreen formats, it uses a pixel aspect ratio of 1.33 instead of 1.0). This means it has lower horizontal resolution than true 1080 HD formats (1920x1080).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Willowsman View Post
    Note that HDV is not the same as HDTV. HDV is a lower resolution than full HD, that's why you will find HD settings in the edit program.

    From Wikipedia:

    "HDV 1080i uses a resolution of 1440×1080 pixels, but is still displayed with an aspect ratio of 16:9 (like SD widescreen formats, it uses a pixel aspect ratio of 1.33 instead of 1.0). This means it has lower horizontal resolution than true 1080 HD formats (1920x1080).
    Minor quibble: HD Video is not as tightly-defined as that; HDV is definitely HD, and is higher resolution than many HD video formats (for example, some HD camcorders record 1280x720).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-definition_video
    "High-definition (HD) video generally refers to any video system of higher resolution than standard-definition (SD), i.e. NTSC, PAL and SECAM."

  11. #11
    Moderator Eugenia Loli-Queru's Avatar
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    Most of the US TV channels also broadcast at 1440x1080 interlaced & interlaced, which is the same as HDV and it is HDTV. It's just that it's not what it's usually called "full HD" (1920x1080 non-interlaced). There is no TV channel --yet-- to broadcast at full HD.

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    NO disagreement with the above. I was just trying to point out why Premiere would have an HDTV setting of 1920 by 1080. Some Premiere users may shoot in full HD format.

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    Default i need help. 60i,30p,24p

    Hi, This is my first post (im a newbe) I'm trying to figure out how to change the fbs. I have found where to change the settings from hdv to hdv(pf24) I'm guessing that hdv(pf24) shoots in 24f and if you add the (cine mode) then it will shoot in 24p? What does hdv,dv wide,dv shoot in 60i or 30 and can you change that? I purchased this to try and shoot a documentary and would like to know what is the best mode to shoot in for the story to go on dvd and the web. thanks

  14. #14
    Administrator Lunchbox's Avatar
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    I suppose "fbs" you mean "fps - frames per second".

    Cine mode has nothing to do with frame rate. You can shoot in cine mode in 60i or 24p.

    In HDV mode, you can choose 60i (30fps) or PF24 (24fps). The resolution is 1440x1080 in 1:1.33 pixel aspect ratio (PAR).

    In DV mode, you can choose DV or DV wide screen. Both in 30fps. Resolution is 720x480. In DV mode, PAR is 1:0.9 and in wide mode PAR is 1.2.

    Try shooting in 24P (PF24). If you do, make sure all panning action is very slow otherwise you will see jittering motion in the frame.

    To use Cine mode or not, it's your call. just do a test if you see the difference in color output.

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    Ok, I understand now. Thanks for such a quick reply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grappler3x View Post
    Thanks for such a quick reply.
    I love the response time of this community.

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    60i is actually 60fps when deinterlaced properly not 30fps, that’s why motion portrayal is SO much better with true 1080i 60 compared to 24p.

    I have a PAL HV20 and find 25p unusable for almost everything I shoot because the camera or subject is usually in motion. 1080i 50 is a dramatic improvement over 25p for my use.
    I have always known about the jitter inherent in 24/25fps motion capture, but until I actually used a 25p camera I never realised how limiting it can be.

    24p displayed on 60Hz TV’s has the added disadvantage of 3:2 pull down judder on top of 24fps jitter, which is yet another reason to avoid 24p.

    25p displayed on a 50Hz TV has no 3:2 pull down judder, but the jitter is still distracting.

    The only advantage I see in 24/25p is the ease of conversion to SD DVD where 1080i can be problematic due to its specific deinterlacing requirements prior the downscaling.

  18. #18
    Administrator Lunchbox's Avatar
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    60i is 30fps.

    What is "true 1080i60"?

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    The only advantage I see in 24/25p is the ease of conversion to SD DVD where 1080i can be problematic due to its specific deinterlacing requirements prior the downscaling.
    You use 24P when you want your footage to have a film-like feel to the motion rendition, and certainly if you plan on doing a film-out. For dramatic, cinematic storytelling, it is expected.

    It is a very specific look, and it has very specific uses. You have to know how to handle it or it will look bad. It's not for shooting home movies of the kids in a pool.

    The very, very best cinematographers in the world all shoot 24P.

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    60i is 30fps.
    No, actually its not. 60i does not equal 30p. Each field is different. You can't combine them into 30 correct frames, you would have a loss of resolution and/or interpolation artifacts. 30p can be encoded into 60i, just as 24p can be, but the HV20 does not have such a mode.

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    I didn't say 30p. I was saying 30fps which is 30 frames per second. 30p is a shooting mode shooting 30 progressive frames per second.

    60i is not 30p. 60i is also not 60fps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe12south View Post
    You use 24P when you want your footage to have a film-like feel to the motion rendition, and certainly if you plan on doing a film-out. For dramatic, cinematic storytelling, it is expected.

    It is a very specific look, and it has very specific uses. You have to know how to handle it or it will look bad. It's not for shooting home movies of the kids in a pool.

    The very, very best cinematographers in the world all shoot 24P.


    Yes, I’m aware that some people my want a “film look” but personally I have never found 24fps motion in any way appealing, and that includes at the cinema.

    I wonder how many cinematographers would use 24fps if 48fps or better was an option.
    Last edited by Owen; 2007 November 19th at 18:47.

  23. #23
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    If you want to be really technical about it, 60i (60 interlaced FIELDS per second) is actually 29.97 interlaced frames per second and 24p is actually 23.976 progressive frames per second, though before pulldown removal it too is stored in a 60i container.

    But, for the record, you could deinterlace standard 60i footage to be "30p" it's not technically 30 progressive frames.

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    60i has 60 motion updates per second not 30, this should always be deinterlaced to 60p if motion portrayal is to be preserved.
    Unfortunately most software deinterlacers don’t do this, they output 30p which is decidedly inferior and in no way acceptable to me.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe12south View Post
    The very, very best cinematographers in the world all shoot 24P.
    That's not entirely accurate.. most film in Europe (or the UK at least) is shot at a rate of 25 frames/second. The bonus is that there is no pulldown required for a transfer to the pal format. It means slightly more film will be consumed in the production, but it translates better to the video market.

    That said though, 24p is the standard for all US productions, and much of the world, but certainly not ALL.

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