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Thread: Hacked firmware Step 2 & 3: Donate to the jackpot and/or donate a [broken] cam

  1. #1
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    Default Hacked firmware Step 2 & 3: Donate to the jackpot and/or donate a [broken] cam

    THIS THREAD HAS MOVED!

    http://hv20.com/showthread.php?t=20098

    Please subscribe to it and post there from now on.
    This thread is now closed.





    OLD INFORMATION AS OF 6th of August 2008:


    The current state of affairs, for the time of writing this thread, is that:

    0) The current donation jackpot is at 198$ - collected from 10 members.

    0.1) The money will remain in the jackpot till the majority of those involved agree to a reasonable extent - to whom and how much of the money is transferred to

    1) The HV30 (PAL) and HF10 (PAL?) firmware were released

    2) Both were decrypted

    3) Reports on this forum (please search) that the HV20 firmware will be
    released before the end of 2008

    4) It is assumed that the HV20 firmware will also be reasonably easy to
    decrypt (doubtful that Canon would use a totally different encryption)

    5) Technical discussion on the CHDK forums about this project: http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php/topic,1641.0.html
    5.1) WIKI: http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/HF10/100_Firmware_Analysis
    5.2) WIKI: http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/HV20
    5.3) WIKI: http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/HV30_Firmware_Analysis

    Please Note:

    If you'd like to help out - have some faith. No one is going to donate to the jackpot AFTER everything is ironed out and working - the jackpot is to be able to Get there.

    To get there, those who want to see this happen, will really need to have some faith. By now we have decrypted firmware, and people that are doing their best - to move forward.

    This also opens up the door for others to step right in on a Technical level, as bits and pieces of the decrypted firmware are OPENLY AVAILABLE through the links mentioned above.

    To those who want to donate yet are afraid the money would be mis-used:

    1) An attempt to have a moderator / HV20.com sponsor this, and/or hold the money has been made - and Taki/HV20.com refused. Too bad, again, I'm always open to having someone more senior than me reputation wise, take the money and be the 'piggybank'

    2) It's not the easiest of choices, picking who gets how much money under which circumstances - if you guys want to devise rules / votes / what not - Please, I support that notion - coupled with notion #1 - I think it'd be alot more helpful to the cause than me deciding anything.

    How do we move forward?

    Read point #1 - If you think you're senior (with a bazillion posts and people here trust you) - contact me -

    I'm just a vocal piggy bank with A-lot of online experience, and alot of involvement in various projects (I also own and manage http://hardware.GamersHell.com - which will soon relaunch into a new version!)

    Note
    We need broken HV30's and/or HF10's - I'm guessing that'd be most ideal immediate need right now.

    Also -

    Suggest strategies that are relevant to the open source nature of the work being made (everyone contributes something) - find Broken HV30's or HF10's - that way there will be little risk of people 'misusing' the money (unless broken HV30's and HF10's are useful :-)

    Most importantly

    Be positive. Without positive thinking, this project will not work. the Piggy bank in the end is a means to an end: Have the resources to motivate, test and deploy a solution for us all.

    If you're still worried and don't want to donate? Fine - Don't. If you would like to help but are worried that your donation would be misused - please help form a strategy that would work for YOU.

    Donate here: http://hv20firmwarehack.chipin.com/hv20-firmware-hack

    And please, do discuss the matters in a constructive way in this thread ^_^

    Cheers!

    Original Post

    Alright folks -

    For those who have been tinkering with the HV20/30, know very well that we're being locked down by the firmware.

    For those that already know about the jackpot - it's being re-opened, read ahead to understand the happenings!

    JackPot URL: http://hv20firmwarehack.chipin.com/hv20-firmware-hack

    After researching things - It seems that generally speaking, a hacked firmware should potentially open up most features of the bigger brother of the HV20, being locked down through software (by the firmware)

    Who's the bigger brother? The XH A1, and it uses exactly the same chip and OS.

    So what features are we likely to get? I'll mention the predominant ones for me:

    http://www.usa.canon.com/app/html/HD...unctions.shtml

    With the XH A1's Custom Functions capability, you can establish the camera settings best suited to your preference. Three custom functions (C.Fn1, C.Fn2 and C.Fn3) are provided. Each custom function allows a total of 21 main items to be selected. All three custom functions can be recorded on a memory card, and can then be downloaded to another camcorder.
    http://www.usa.canon.com/app/html/HD...me_rates.shtml

    60i, 30F, 24F: The XH A1 delivers 1080i HD resolution, along with selectable frame rates of 60i, 30F and 24F. For high-speed subjects, 30 Frame delivers optimal clarity; 24 Frame gives the look and motion of film. An optional upgrade enables 50i/25F frame rates.
    What this likely means, is that PAL/NTSC is software switchable.

    http://www.usa.canon.com/app/html/HD...benefits.shtml

    Set image quality adjustments and store them as 9 different presets for later use or for exporting to other camcorders
    http://www.usa.canon.com/app/html/HD...software.shtml

    Console software allows you to control multiple functions of the camera remotely from your laptop. Whether you're changing camera settings like f-stop and white balance, capturing your footage directly onto your hard-drive, or monitoring a live video signal using the built-in Vectorscope and Waveform Monitor, the CONSOLE software puts all of the necessary professional functions at your fingertips.
    and ofcourse, manual control over gain/aperture/exposure/...
    Last edited by 1; 2009 January 2nd at 14:42. Reason: thread closed, new thread now available

  2. #2
    Senior Member musicjules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soultrape View Post
    Hey guys,

    We talked about this on the other firmware features thread - so, it's time to take things to the next level! I'm quoting the page I've set up - notice to HV20 moderators and owners, perhaps you can join the effort to give it more credibility (with all due respect to myself :P)

    The Jackpot is now Active: http://hv20firmwarehack.chipin.com/hv20-firmware-hack



    http://hv20firmwarehack.chipin.com/hv20-firmware-hack

    PS. I tried donating, but it wouldn't allow me, because I can't donate to myself :< I'll use my family's credit card today... Let's make this happen!

    By the way guys - We need to stir interest on other forums as well - this is for all HV20 owners, we should expand and make this more public! And remember, it IS legal ^_^

    Once you donate, post a reply and let us know! Hopefully the moderators would allow us to post the flash widget that shows how much we've donated already! (I'm not allowed to post HTML tags)

    well i don't want to be rude or something ... but i'm quite scared donate my 100 bucks to a "junior member" with only 26 posts in here... i will more confident if TAKY for exemple or an other modo make it with his own paypal account ... it's not against you soultrape! but i think we will have more donation if the donation account is "secure" ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by musicjules View Post
    well i don't want to be rude or something ... but i'm quite scared donate my 100 bucks to a "junior member" with only 26 posts in here... i will more confident if TAKY for exemple or an other modo make it with his own paypal account ... it's not against you soultrape! but i think we will have more donation if the donation account is "secure" ...
    I stated that in the beginning of the post - if any of the admins/moderators are up for it - I'm more than willing to hand over the payment issues to someone else.

    I basically set up what needs to be set up - knowing that someone with a better Rep than me needs to push this forward...

    So, if anyone of the admins/mods is game, just let me know by PM or email - get a ChipIn account up, and we'll copy/paste the text and links...

    Update: I contacted Taky, to try and speed things up... no reason to be slow ^_^
    Last edited by Soultrape; 2008 March 11th at 13:43.

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    Senior Member musicjules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soultrape View Post
    Update: I contacted Taky, to try and speed things up... no reason to be slow ^_^
    well i think we will begin donate when we will have the original firmware....

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    This is a great initiative, and I'm half tempted to jump into the development myself.

    How the will bounties be awarded? Maybe the community should decide on per-feature awards? E.g. so much for manual gain control, etc.

    Kevin Atkinson

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    It's our initiative - we decide how things happen. I'm not taking credit for organization, organization is only part of it ^_^

    Thing is Kefex, it is most likely that most features will be unlocked altogether - but in case they don't - i'm sure will figure it out. we have what, 4-5 features? split them linearly sounds fine. we'll cross that bridge when we get to it ^_^

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    Quote Originally Posted by kefex View Post
    This is a great initiative, and I'm half tempted to jump into the development myself.

    How the will bounties be awarded? Maybe the community should decide on per-feature awards? E.g. so much for manual gain control, etc.

    Kevin Atkinson
    Well... I think that the big award goes to whoever actually sets up a way to hack the firmware and then reload it into the camera... the exact features aren't that much of an accomplishment when the code actually have been extracted, mapped, charted, decoded, method of rewriting it successfully and a method of reloading it back into the chips of the camera has been firmly established. The exact features enabled would be a easy part to implement once these things has been done

    I've seen some really weird ways of getting at the firmwares and getting extra codes in there... Like the png-workaround almost viral code that was done for the PSP... Maybe we'll get some code embedded into a DV-stream, via miniDV-tapes, or something else... just to get your minds started on some alternate routes
    Last edited by jmalmsten; 2008 March 11th at 14:38.

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    Guys, thanks for the honor. I am discussing this with other mods in the mod forum. Will get back to you guys later.

    Taky

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    Senior Member exte's Avatar
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    Wow... this is the most forward stepping/progressive forum I've ever been a part of. Productive indeed!

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    Let me see. It is not known whether the hack -- in whole or parts of it -- is possible. No one has stepped up to the plate to work on the hack. Yet people collect money for it. This jackpot looks like scam to me.

    Usually it works other way: someone who got the camera and who is passionate and knowledgeable enough, does the hack for himself. Then if he is generous enough, he releases the hack in the wild. Users of the hack may donate to the author, or not, voluntarily. Hacking means doing stuff for fun. Doing stuff for money or forced by orders is called "reverse-engineering" and is usually expressly prohibited by manufacturers of the product that is about to be reverse-engineered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramis View Post
    Let me see. It is not known whether the hack -- in whole or parts of it -- is possible. No one has stepped up to the plate to work on the hack. Yet people collect money for it. This jackpot looks like scam to me.

    Usually it works other way: someone who got the camera and who is passionate and knowledgeable enough, does the hack for himself. Then if he is generous enough, he releases the hack in the wild. Users of the hack may donate to the author, or not, voluntarily. Hacking means doing stuff for fun. Doing stuff for money or forced by orders is called "reverse-engineering" and is usually expressly prohibited by manufacturers of the product that is about to be reverse-engineered.
    Actually, software usually works this way: someone pays the programmer, and the software gets written. I do it for a living, and it has to be pretty damn compelling before I work for free. Yes, there are noble exceptions like linux, though even there most of the people working on it work under the patronage of some large, well-funded organization or other.

    Bounty systems have had mixed results in the free software world, but there have been spectacular successes -- think Blender, for instance (maybe not created through a bounty system per se, but initially funded by the user community). My hunch is it's just the thing for a specialized, motivated community like this. You may be lucky enough to find a hacker who wants to put the time in purely for the fun of it, but if not, greasing the skids with a few bucks is an excellent idea.

    As for it being a scam -- do you really think they're in this to rip you off?

    And if the manufacturer is determined to sue, they aren't going to make any distinction between hacking and "reverse engineering".

    And why not collect funds now? If you want to attract the hacker talent, put up some cash.

    Kevin

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    Quote Originally Posted by exte View Post
    Wow... this is the most forward stepping/progressive forum I've ever been a part of. Productive indeed!
    +1!!!

    don't know how all of this will turn out... but it is great to read and share with people with such a huge initiative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramis View Post
    Let me see. It is not known whether the hack -- in whole or parts of it -- is possible. No one has stepped up to the plate to work on the hack. Yet people collect money for it. This jackpot looks like scam to me.

    Usually it works other way: someone who got the camera and who is passionate and knowledgeable enough, does the hack for himself. Then if he is generous enough, he releases the hack in the wild. Users of the hack may donate to the author, or not, voluntarily. Hacking means doing stuff for fun. Doing stuff for money or forced by orders is called "reverse-engineering" and is usually expressly prohibited by manufacturers of the product that is about to be reverse-engineered.
    Now that's offensive to me. First, regardless of your knowledge on 'How the World Works', I'd think twice before calling someone a thief - If you're questioning my integrity, it's going to take a bit more than your word on understanding 'How things Work' in the software or firmware hacking world.

    2ndly, as I've mentioned on the page, you may reverse engineer anything you'd like, as long as the means are legal - although some fella's in the USA with the DMCA might beg to differ, but that issue is for the US people, not everyone, certainly not me.

    3rdly, I've already contacted Taky, and since the beginning stated that someone more senior than me, should lead the initiative to give it more credibility, hell, 2-3 posts ago, I clarified this and even contact Taky to avoid what could fairly be weariness -

    But between Weariness and calling someone a thief, there's a huge wide gap, brother.

    Anyways, this was a detour - if you feel you want to continue discussing this, there's Private Messages for that - I've said what needed to be said publicly.

    Anyways - We can wait till the moderators discuss this issue further, as Taky has mentioned - then decide how to proceed.

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    Senior Member exte's Avatar
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    Soultrape, I and many others give you and musicjules credit for taking this above and beyond. My sincere thanks to you both...

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    Quote Originally Posted by exte View Post
    Soultrape, I and many others give you and musicjules credit for taking this above and beyond. My sincere thanks to you both...
    Thanks mate - hopefully if the mods agree to take this on, we can get the ball rolling! I want full controls over my camera, not some crippled down version.

    We might argue whether Canon intended or not, but I want the best out of my Cam :-)

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    I think it's great that people are being proactive about this, and also that questions are being raised about it also. At the end of the day this thread should cover all of the for and against issues so people are more comfortable with the overall objective of the project, and can make a more informative decision on whether to contribute or not, or whether to develop of not.

    One suggestion that I have is to organise the break up of the payments for each task now rather then waiting until people start unlocking features. I'm not an expert here, but I would assume that....
    All features - 100%
    First feature - 40%
    Second feature - 20%
    Third feature - 20%
    Fourth feature - 20%

    I base this on the fact that the hardest part of the task is actually getting the firmware, updating and applying this to the camera, therefore making the first task the largest share. This would also require that process to be published to the competition once confirmed to allow other competitors a fair go at the remaining tasks.

    A lot of problems derive from money, even if we believe that won't be the case here lets take steps to ensure that it certainly won't.

    Now that I think of it, I'm sure this is the discussion that is happening in the Moderators forum, good luck guys and I hope this helps some.....

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    I'm a little dismayed that although several people have said they think this is a good idea yet no one has contributed yet. Maybe they're waiting for a Moderator to bless the program and take ownership?

    Good luck.

    Dennis

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    Yes, they said to wait...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Vogel View Post
    I'm a little dismayed that although several people have said they think this is a good idea yet no one has contributed yet. Maybe they're waiting for a Moderator to bless the program and take ownership?
    Quote Originally Posted by musicjules View Post
    well i think we will begin donate when we will have the original firmware....
    (i have no cc, anyway)

  20. #20
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    ok. i just donated 2 bucks to ala shaban.

    below is a copy and paste of my contribution.

    Thanks John!
    You contributed $2.00 to HV20 Firmware Hack

    Payment Details
    Save or print this page for your records3/13/2008
    Receipt ID 7df384fafa0b9903
    Paid By: John Hotze (johnhotze@sbcglobal.net)
    For: HV20 Firmware Hack
    Method: PayPal (johnhotze@sbcglobal.net)
    Total: $2.00


    This receipt confirms that you authorized a payment to Ala Shiban for the event HV20 Firmware Hack. Should you have questions regarding this transaction, please visit our FAQ or contact us at contact.chipin.com.

    now what?

    i just went to the member list and saw that we now have 7666 members. i guess if half of the members donated two bucks, ala would have $7666. that should be enough to purchase a couple hv20s that can be disassembled for the purposes of this project. he would also have enough left over for other costs involved. if this is a scam, which i don't believe it is, have a great vacation Ala.

    i don't have a lot of confidence that the hv20 firmware can be hacked and we can install updates from the hack, but i am a strong believer in the old saying "s@#t or get off the pot". lets get some answers one way or the other.

    by the way, if you go to the member list and than clik on the number of posts, you will see some interesting stats on who has been busy here. it looks like taky is the winner.

    i'm amazed at how dynamic this forum is. you can slip off for about 10 minutes and slip back on to see a whole new world of posts. that keeps this parlor pretty sunny.

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    heh... yeah... 2 bucks from everyone here... that ain't much... I sure hope it will happen. I'm litteraly broke myself (thinking of selling my Letus to get some money that won't be eaten up) so it'll take some weeks before I can start contributing...

    Hehe... Also, I have been thinking about starting a donation-webpage myself called something like www.givememoneyfornothing.com just to see how much I could get... This donation that you guys are talking about are of course way more noble (since my idea was just to get some money to party with or something, and not trying to hide it I might add...).

    I am really interested to see what comes from all of this. The biggest hurdle being that we as of now don't know of any way to get at the firmware without hardware-hacking.

    Another cool thing I thought of the other day was that it would be nice to hack the Console-software from Canon and make it able to run on something portable. Just being like a really advanced Lanc-remote if you understand what I mean?

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    Wouldn't the first step be to get your hands on an HV20 Service Manual? The procedure for upgrading firmware for pro level Canon camcorders has been well documented on the Internet and requires using a special memory card that contains both the firmware upgrade and the software to communicate with the camcorder. It would be nice to know whether the procedure is the same for the VIXIA (IVIS) series.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Terrible's Avatar
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    May be you should send an invitation to the nice guys at http://www.hackaday.com/. They are a community that hack all kind of gadgets just for the love of doing it and they share all their findings. I'm sure that somebody would be willing to do it just for the challenge but if you are offering an incentive that would make it even more interesting for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terrible View Post
    May be you should send an invitation to the nice guys at http://www.hackaday.com/. They are a community that hack all kind of gadgets just for the love of doing it and they share all their findings. I'm sure that somebody would be willing to do it just for the challenge but if you are offering an incentive that would make it even more interesting for them.
    I just emailed hackaday.com. We'll see what happens. There's already someone there that has hacked Canon digital still cameras. Maybe someone there is up to the task.

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    Hey Guys -

    Just for the record - I'll be passing all the donations made till now (2$ :P) to the Mods in case they agree to sponsor this - and remove the link till it gets ModApproved (probably the money will go to a mod, not me)

    My main point that I'd like to make is - starting step 2, everything needs to run in parallel, because its a Cycle. Once there is motivation (jackpot) - quality people will join the initiative - people that will look for the firmware, talk to people, hackers will hear about the money, try and look into it and so on.

    It's not 1,2,3 anymore - and its not just HV20.com members either - if this thing gets the OK - we can (after initial donations from us) post it on Digg, and promote it ourselves - get other people involved... (and more members on HV20.com as a side-effect!)

    Basically - it's a parallel process - it's been done before, it's been tested before - hopefully luck will be on our side ^_^

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